(4) How Kevin Dorsey Turns Sales Calls Into Pipeline Machines - YouTube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kxymC32AvI

Transcript: (00:01) this week on Unfuck My Startup we brought in the closer closer Kevin Dorsy the guy who's built and scaled sales orgs to hundreds of millions in revenue to show us what's working in outbound sales today This is what's getting lost y'all I'm going to call y'all on this This is what's getting lost in sales is like we we've lost that human side of things We've lost that element of like "Hey let me help you. (00:29) " And then when someone does we're polite about it some I will like those are things I pay attention to of like the human side of selling we've lost a little bit or Yeah Well I mean that and that to me is like one of the best things about this Like if I'm a seller I kind of want to know if I'm slipping but not when I'm practicing But I only power dial I do not parallel dial And I am very strict against that with my team They power dial They do not parallel dial They are calling one to one each time And the beauty of power power dialing is it takes the thinking out of making the dial And by the way you look at the (01:06) retention of the show it's 7 minutes past that hour There wasn't a single person that dropped at 30 minutes Why Cuz everybody wants to know this [Music] [Music] Kevin Dorsey's coming You're going to get the sickest sales intel ever once he comes But we're going to start the show how we always start the show so it's no big deal We're going to start the show with the pitch slap segment So let's go over the rules of of the pitch slap Okay So Kraton you got two minutes to pitch your startup to the entire 422 person audience right now which is growing by the second Uh we're going to run a (02:01) survey probably like a minute and a half in Buy or no Yes or no with buy Over 66% you get a swag box Over 33% you get a t-shirt Under 33% you get sent home uh with a pat on the back And then we're going to book you demos from the audience in our record booking demos What's our record Pete I think it's like we got 20some for somebody So I mean that's a good that's a good couple of STRs weeks right there So yeah 20 something demos I mean who's booking 20some demos these days Not me Not me Yeah Nobody Nobody on my shoot dude We should pitch on our own (02:43) show We're like we completely missed that I know I know We should be talking about what we're building but we refuse to We'll get there at uh at the halfway mark I'll drop a little promo but uhraton runs audience.io I dropped the link right here into the chat Everyone can pull up audience. (03:11) io as I usually do I'm going to share my screen for just a second uh so everyone can see uh this nice website Brayton whenever you're ready my friend All right What are you working on Perfect Yeah So this was uh Did not know I was gonna get called up from the bench so we're going to do the best we can Um we built a software platform that captures first party data And so that would be anything from the popup on your website to a sweep stakes that you want to run Maybe it's a survey a quiz or a poll We got in about 10 years ago with some big media companies So NBC Fox iHeart Radio and we found out (03:44) pretty quick that they couldn't like compliance reasons just use a bunch of different tools They needed one like onbrand compliant system for all things data capture So we went like full steam ahead on that and we built tools that honestly collect every piece of data for them So anything like what I was saying before it started out as a sweep stakes company and then we had to build a full-blown survey platform and then polls and quizzes and UGC and there's even groups like ESPN that use us for like March Madness brackets and and that kind of stuff So um our our platform (04:22) though the pitch here would be if you truly want to own your audience and know who they are having them in a bunch of segmented tools and a bunch of different silos isn't going to cut it Like you need to get all of that data into one place And usually where it gets messy is because you're capturing it in 10 different platforms And so that's where we bring it all together So audience. (04:46) io IO is one platform for all things data capture and engagement and can work on WordPress Shopify It doesn't really matter what your site's built on And real quick can you just give us like two or three examples You gave them already but like how's a startup like what is it Polls and surveys and like whatever else like Yeah because I mean there has to be that like value um like transaction for firstparty data So like for you guys it's like hey we're going to give you this amazing content in return We'd ask (05:14) for your name your email your company your title Where are you going to post that How are you going to build it Is it going to be on brand And is it most importantly going to be tied to the database the tools that you guys already use HubSpot etc So that's where we came in is there's so many different one-off like quiz companies and polls companies and sweep stakes where we just brought it all together into one system Got it Um how's it priced Last thing Yeah So it's priced based on the traffic that (05:45) you see to your site And so for a smaller company that's just starting up we're we're just looking at it of like all right how big's your company How many people are going to hit this popup this contest etc And so it grows with you but it's a it's a it's a monthly price Yep Sweet All right Rock on 29 people said yes Heck yeah We're like three minutes after we asked and people are still saying demo Maybe the pitch just took a while to sink in Kraton It's like you know what I actually do want first party data from my website Yeah (06:16) you have to own your own audience man You can't Yeah you know hey imagine if we could have like known we were going to pitch today And it would have been even better So yeah you would Yeah you would Take it man We'll take it Happy to come bench Thanks for coach Rock and roll Well thank you so much for participating in the pitch lab segment And yeah the best news of that entire time We got you demos But Kevin Dorsey showed up Everybody was worried We were sitting on the edge of our seat We got 455 is that six We got 465 live bodies Every one of them teed up to figure out (06:54) how the [ __ ] do I make this sales thing work bro I don't know I'm here to find out too You know I was just telling me we were relying on you This is a double catfish This is bad like you know the good old fashioned double catfish where it's like you lied and I lied and now we're here and we can't be mad about it So let's see how this plays out All right Well let's give you a little bit of an intro here We got Kevin Dorsy on If you haven't seen him on LinkedIn he's the chief revenue officer finally and a (07:23) veteran who has scaled sales teams at is this recently IPO company Service Titan Did they recently IPO Is that right Recently IPOed Service Titan Patient Pop uh Bench He has grown several teams above several hundred salespeople several hundred million of ARR He's gone from beginning to full scale Uh all about building elite sales teams Kevin Dorsy could not be more excited about having you on Dude I'm pumped man I'm pumped I trust me I was sweating too You know there were storms in Austin and storms in Denver and it's raining so I'm (07:56) like running through the rain trying to get to the hotel room But no I'm pumped to be here man I appreciate you having me dude and thanks for thanks for hustling to get here I mean we luckily we had that first segment to uh to sort of bite our time or whatever but we're all here now We're happy and let's get into it Pete what are we talking about first So Kevin something By the way KD you you like going by KD so I'm gonna stop calling you Kevin because uh yeah I mean Kevin Kevin is my name so it's okay (08:24) It's just good this point when I'm in trouble you know like if I go too far that like if you say "Hey now Kevin," then I know I went too far and I can pull back whatever I was talking about there So now now we're on the same page We're good There we go Well you can call me Peter at any time Uh I'll just think it's my my mom or dad But um so something we love talking about on this show because things move so quickly especially the world of sales marketing B2B SAS um and especially in recent times we've just seen sales change incredibly fast So as a CRO you're in charge of an entire sales motion right (08:59) From from the prospect people prospecting to closing So I really just want to start off by diving into what is working right now for finally And maybe we start at the top of the funnel with your SDRs Are there certain things that they're doing nowadays that maybe you weren't quite doing at Service Titan and Patient Pop Um so actually it's it's the opposite They are doing less of what I did in the past with patient pop and service titan and bench So my SDRs are 100% phone-based They're 100% phone based All right They are booking anywhere from 17 to 25 My (09:40) tops are in the high 20s demos per month over the phone only Whereas historically my SDRs were running the full plays themselves They were emailing they were socialing they were calling they were videoing they were doing all the steps My SDRs are 100% phone-based now And we handle the other channels for them right We handle the email for them We handle the social for them And that that's actually the shift So it's not even necessarily doing things that I didn't do is actually doing less of the things I did in the past and focusing on the one area that really I think separates (10:22) most good sales dev or from the rest is can they pick up the phone Can they get somebody on and can they have a good conversation I've been saying this for years man Like if all you're doing is sending templated emails I don't need an STR I don't need it If all you're doing is sending template I can do that already by myself right And so that that's the shift man is my STR is 100% phone based 100% This is this is very old school of you in a very great way So I want to break up these two sections By the way you got some love in the chat for going 100% By the way audience who (10:56) else is phone based here We got anybody else using the phones Boom Boom All right People loving the phones I have a I have a qu I have a question about this So do you think I have a couple questions actually Do you think that what's your ACV for for who they're calling I have three different I have three different sales orgs but the ACV for my outbound org is in like the 10 to 14K ACV and then I have them a little bit on the up market too We have a few like six figure deals in there Yeah Yeah Yeah Okay And then uh are they (11:29) US-based or is it all They are US-based They're all in office in Boca Raton Florida Shout out Heck yeah So so you're making that work which is interesting because I heard I heard for a while that like HubSpot made it work but the world's changed You can't make an outbound sales or work on on 20K ACV anymore That you are 100% declaring that is false So here here's where everyone I think gets that wrong It's a simple math equation It actually has nothing to do with ACV and everything to do with SDR volume Right So for example I had a 100% outbound team at Snack Nation Snack (12:06) Nation sold snacks in a box which is what I wanted to call it by the way I'm still jealous that we went like we should have been snack in the box It would have been It would have been so good Like see look marketers you get like Yeah I know the box We would had so much fun with that I digress Well I want I want to start a company called Lulu Lime Oh god I'm in I'm in Yoga Yoga for dudes Yes So but now here here's where it was The ACV at Snack Nation was $4,200 Yeah But my SDRs were booking 45 appointments a month So it has nothing to do with ACV has everything to do with (12:43) SDR or pipeline volume right If all you can do is produce 15 opportunities per month then yeah you need a 20 25K ACV as the floor But if my if you're doing 15 and my upstairs are doing 30 I can quite literally cut my ACV in half and it still works So it's just a math equation Most people got so caught on the ACV side that they never ran the full math of like well no like how much does it have to produce to be successful Do you think the low ACV is intimidating to uh salespeople and sales leaders that Yeah it's it's not easy to do You have to (13:19) give a lot You cannot do a low ACV outbound and only book 10 meetings a month You can't like you just you cannot do that right So that's that's where you have to focus Okay But if you can do more than that like hell yeah like absolutely So I wanted to So you um they're all calling people in office I think that was a big change too when when you know COVID happened A lot of people went remote that mobile I mean our iPhones are so freaking good at screening out spam calls It's amazing Um well not amazing for a sales team trying to call mobile numbers but for everybody else Um so you're still routing through (13:57) the office which is great Are there specific tools I want to talk about the email stack that you're running for them but let's talk about the phone side Are you using like phone burner or any of these dialers to help increase their their output Yes So we use you know we use um actually we have two different dialers especially we're testing right right now kind of comparing the metrics be behind them So like I don't want to announce the winner yet but we're testing two right now Um but they are both power dialers but I only power dial (14:29) I do not parallel dial and I am very strict against that with my team They power dial They do not parallel dial They are calling one to one each time And the beauty of power power power dialing is it takes the thinking out of making the dial because the the hard part that I think people you know the mental drain it takes to choose to make 200 dials is a lot to choose to pick up pick up that that's very draining Whereas if you know just going to work through your list people answer great but you know who's going to answer you have the conversation move on to the next one So yes so we use a a power (15:06) dialer right now We provide the leads and the research to the SDRs right So we have a lead enrichment process and system that we put into place there And on the email side similarly it's like if people are responding or engaging things along those natures But yes we use a power dialer They average anywhere from 150 to 200 dials per day Our connect rates are in the 12 to 13% range We're actually working with um Titan X right now Shout out Joey Gilkkey Their lists are in the 20 to 25% connect rate range (15:37) and then we track our conversation rate our conversation conversion rate all the way through the thing Um someone just dropped in why no parallel dialing I have the same I have the same hypothesis as you by the way but I I want to hear it from the man So so I you know I always want to be so careful with this because I don't want to like f up people's like world here but here here's the deal No that's what we do That's okay Like are we in a safe space man like I just whatever So here's the deal And I have tracked this y'all across four different orgs I have tried (16:08) parallel dialers at every single org that I have run because the math sounds so good If I 3x my dials if I 5x my dials I should 5x my meetings It has never worked And here's why For every multiple of dial increase I've seen the same multiple decrease in conversation and conversation conversion rate Right Because when you parallel dial out almost man I'm getting so I'm getting so much trouble for this When you parallel out no matter no matter what people tell you there's a delay No matter what people tell you there is a delay And so when that prospect has to say hello (16:47) twice it kills the tone of the opener of that So they may get you on the second time but then also your STR didn't know who was going to answer And so now they are unprepared for that conversation So the prospect said "Hello hello Hey Adam It's KD over at finally Um how's your Tuesday going bro?" Right Yeah And so so for every multiple up of dial I saw the same decrease in conversation conversion rate So it always netted out the same But then I also felt I was burning leads because it was the conversation conversion rate that drops And that (17:25) means they actually got to chance to talk to us but the opener on it was so bad that it messed up And yes you can have the trust me I tried the pre-recorded intro because there's no like I tried it all That's why I have tested it I've gone through it I am an advocate I love the parallel or sorry the power dial I love taking the thinking out of it I love that it can go through it right But it's latency and like knowing who's going to answer and being prepared for that conversation those things drop the conversation conversion rate then it makes it not (17:57) even worth it And I'm burning leads at that point I'm burning through the leads And that's that's why Hey you know what I love about your practice It's all data driven I remember first from the first podcast you got me on I'm like every single thing that you say is backed up by an experiment you've done And I really appreciate that because uh I wish I was more that way I'm kind of a gut guy It's all It's all good I've grown I've grown into the science of it all I've always loved numbers you know I've always loved that because like my whole thing right is like numbers don't lie sales people (18:32) do And so it's like let me see what the numbers actually tell me Funny enough right y'all literally in the Uber on the way to the hotel I'm in a back and forth with my VP of sales development about which dialer is going to win And I was like can you confidently state the connect rate was higher here Yes the connect rate was higher here Cool Did it lead to more conversations Yes it led to more conversations Cool Did it lead to more meetings Because if it didn't lead to more meetings they can fluff up the conversation rate and the connect rate (19:01) all they want If it didn't lead to more meetings no this one won through and through Cool But it was all data I don't I'm not messing around with gut anymore because also Natam you and I have talked about this a little bit in the past Gut can get you to five to 10 Science gets you to a 100 to a billion It has to be repeatable You have to know which levers to pull You have to know wait if my connect rate is 11% I can get that to 14% I can hire four less SDRs over here and take that 35gs and put that into marketing over here Like you to scale to a 100 million and a billion you have to have the science (19:36) side Gut and hard work can get you to 10 sometimes 20 to be honest Past that you got to know what the hell you're doing and you got to be able to scale it Yeah that hits pretty close to home my man Yeah we've talked I'm feeling pretty stuck at 20 Feeling pretty stuck at 25 right now Uh you know um one last thing Where's the list coming from Is this uh Yeah Who is it right Like so we we have m we use multiple providers um to get the the list So you know we leverage Zoom Info we leverage um Apollo and then we leverage Titanex um with uh Joey Gilkkey (20:15) And so we we know the industries and titles we want to go after and so we're going out and getting those I don't need my SDRs trying to go find those things right Like that that's a waste of their their time right So we we we have a whole system there you know call it pseudo waterfall but also becau on the phone you actually don't need as much personalization funny enough as you do in email email you need personalization to stand out because you're in a inbox full of everything On the phone the personalization is you're talking to a person right So they don't need nearly as much It's not like I'm opening like (20:55) if I were to call you and be like "Hey Adam KD over at finally." So like you know did you ever ride the mechanical bull at shooters while you were at Duke That'd be such a weird opener like you know to do Whereas in email that's the stuff that stands out So they need to know the company the target the persona and the size of the company That's all they actually need to know when they're calling Emailing is a whole different ballgame that you have to do there right So So yeah I I I lost track of the Oh yeah So we provide the leads We do enrichment and we're actually continuing (21:28) to build out This is where our agents have started I saw someone ask in the chat like where Agentic AI is going to play This is where we're starting to leverage it on the research side of like that on the personalization side for emails We're using it but like we we'll get into this I'm using more of the AI on like the call scoring side of things than I am on the research side of things I I love this topic because like I think go to market so this is probably blasphemy too but like you you you know the reason why (22:03) uh I think there's been so much uh it's like the whole very high volume out of one person bunch of domains all that stuff the reason why that is so prevalent I believe is because uh it's just so much harder to email now that that's the only way the the response rate is so low That's what you have to do right And it just literally doesn't make sense for a human being to be doing that anymore But it's because they've gotten better at stopping the spam right But like I but but I think like you hear what AI should (22:37) do and the first reaction was like oh we should have AI doing the stuff that humans were were doing before Whereas I think the pe like people I see most excited about AI it's all related to coaching Like let me tell you a story I got a buddy whose wife literally wanted to divorce him He started putting his screenshots of his text messages into chat GPT Told him all about her Told him all about their four relationships She's staying at the house every night again We could go on this whole this we spent a whole time on on this divorce GPT Yeah (23:14) Exactly Excuse me But but like this thing is a coach to make you it's like it's like one of the most I think the most incredible thing about it is it allow it allows you to separate yourself from your huristics and your fallibility as a human and give you an objective overview of something that just happened Right It's the lack of bias and the lack of you know call like personal history there or selfm motivation like this is you know we I don't want to open up this can of worms but this is why when people like people only want to buy from people It's like no no they don't No that we (23:48) we've stopped buying from people a long time ago People want their problem solved They want to be heard They want to be understood and they want people that can teach them something I saw someone drop it in the chat a little bit of like you know providing value Okay Adam you you're you're a CEO You've been in the game for a while Have you ever ever had an SDR teach you something that you didn't know about yourself company or industry Probably not ever Okay So like this is so people are talking about like value I have yet to speak to an STR ever that has taught me (24:27) something about being a better CRO about being a better sales leader It's almost impossible It's not fair oftent times for a lot of um SDRs and truthfully a lot of AES too where most unfortunately this is one of the biggest Ponzi schemes in the world is most sales reps don't even use the product they sell So they're not the persona and they don't use it So how can they provide value to me They actually can do is ask good questions to make me think a little bit differently and get me into the process but it's hard Whereas AI knows everything about the industry Like if (25:01) y'all y'all if you aren't using AI with some awesome meta prompts to understand the industry trends commonly overlooked situations questions that don't get asked what are the top questions about my persona on Reddit on Quora on Medium on on Google like if you're not using AI to understand the industry and the persona better you are missing out immensely right Immensely because that's the only place that you have have a chance So it's getting wild man It is And to your point this is what makes it so hard is you can do the right thing as an individual sending an email yet (25:33) you're still buried under 50 emails that weren't done well That weren't done well right Like that's that's hard right to to stand out from This is also funny enough why I'm still a huge proponent of video she's reported a video because it's it's still like the last place for maybe six more months where where it's like okay like a person actually sent this thing right whereas an email is getting harder and harder to pass any sort of test of did a human write that or not So no it's getting wild man It's getting wild I want to make the whole Let's do the whole second half of this (26:09) section about I want to hear about the AI coaching some more Um let's do all the Adam are you going to ask a question before we get into the next Yeah Before we go to Unfuck My Startup the segment Uh can I just ask you like what is the cold call opener script that actually works Yes Right like what what because like I know I'm sitting here I'm like I I just don't know what it I I have a hard time imagining something that I would react favorably to because like my thing is like the second I know that it is a pitch I'm just like stop I hate you (26:43) know whatever Yep I I got you And so I'll give some context here I you know back to the data things I have quite literally split test single words in the script Team A I want you using this word Team B I want you using this word which one has a higher pass through rate So I've tracked pass through rate opener acceptance question ask exception but like we've gone all those So I give you all some context here Like this is not me just like throwing out some ideas These are things I've tested over hundreds of thousands of calls and (27:14) thousands of reps So the opener first is like you know we'll break this down The opener starts with you got to take away the first like questions anyone has when you call them which is who are you Why are you calling What the hell do you want Right So the opener is very very straightforward Hey Adam it's KD at Finally right So I'm identifying myself right out of the gate from Finley So I'm taking the first two away The next you have to answer like the why are you calling And so actually I'd be very (27:40) curious I'm going to see if y'all are even paying attention in the chat real quick Drop a one in the chat if you've read Influence by Robert Keini Drop a in the chat if you have read Influence by Robert Keini All right let's get it changed Right because this what by the way this is a classic y'all This is when people ask like is sales an art or a science It's like yo it's both They've studied this [ __ ] They know what works So one of the key takeaways in influence talks about the use of a justifier When you use a justifier for an ask people are anywhere from three to four times (28:10) more likely to comply with the ask right And they they studied this even with something as offensive as cutting a line which is in America is like the last holy thing that we have We disagree on politics on religion on sports but lines and orange cones are sacred in America Like we we stand behind these things You have to give a justifier So justifier is like a reason for the call But I don't do things like so the reason for my call like we don't talk that way So he goes "Hey Adam this is KD over at Finally Um (28:40) actually I was just on your website." There's your justifier I was just on your website I was looking at your LinkedIn I saw your most recent blog I saw your most recent episode Like you put some microjustifier which also builds curiosity because now you're going like what did you see on my website What did you see on my my blog Whatever Just like hey Adam this is KD over at finally um actually I was just on your website and I was hoping to ask a couple quick questions to see if it's even worth a larger combo Would that be okay Do you got a sec And so what we're doing there right (29:15) so one we are using a minimizer I was hoping to ask a couple quick questions to see if it's even worth Right So we're actually minimizing the ask but also continuing to build curiosity of like to see if it's even worth a larger convo seating I'm seating there would be a larger combo and then you're what's called a layered question Would that be okay Do you got a set So a layered question is when you put two questions together where the answer to the second question also answers the first question Would that be okay Do you got a sec By (29:49) saying yes you got a sec you're also saying yes to you can ask the questions But then lastly y'all I want y'all to hear my tone on this This is the key This is the key Hey Adam this is KD over at Finally Actually I was just on your website and I was hoping to ask a couple quick questions to to see if it's even worth a larger combo Would that be okay Do you got a sec How would you describe my tone there Uh it is very It is not pushy It is curious It is interested Uh it is it is it comes across as as trying to like I could be helpful to you if you were open to it right Like but I'm not (30:39) I'm not jamming this down your throat right Like so we we call it the lost in the city tone Lost in the city right Where it's like hey like if you were lost and and actually you know what's hilarious by the way dude Adam we're going to date ourselves there I was teaching this to one of my SDR classes a couple months ago and they're like "How do you get lost in the city?" These kids have always had a goddamn phone Yeah So funny right They've never been lost in I need to come up with a new with a new tone right And so it's (31:13) like it's like "Hey like you know it's this like I'm lost I'm looking for some help Don't know if you can help me Let's see." It's a pull tone versus a push tone a push tone Hey Adam's KD over at finally I know this is a cold call You weren't expecting my call but you have 27 seconds to see why I'm calling you today Yeah You're like [ __ ] off Like no Right So that tone pulls people in And then I saw someone put it in here and then So and I'll I'll push back on this You know they're like well is it a bait and switch if it's a sales call No because literally what I said I (31:48) was going to do I'm going to do I was hoping to ask some questions to see if it's even worth a larger convo Would that be okay Do you got a sec Right That intro should have anywhere from a 50 to 60% take rate Right 50 to 60% of people like I mean okay maybe Right And well I mean Tracy you got to ask Adam and Pete if we're going to turn this into a cold calling lecture or not I can go down this whole thing Yeah No this is what this is what we want to know Okay cool Everybody wants to start using the phones We want to go as deep as possible Yeah dude And by the way you look at the (32:23) retention of this show It's seven minutes past half hour There wasn't a single person that dropped at 30 minutes Why Because everybody wants to know this Who wants to know Audience tell us if you want KD to keep going deeper So there's a few places this will will go Okay people are with me here Boom boom boom boom boom So that intro should be anywhere from a 50 to 60% take rate So to be very clear are people still going to hang up on you on a cold call Yes Are people still like of course right But that intro what I want to want (32:56) what I want you to think about is if they said no to that what were they going to say yes to First of all if you nailed the tone permissionbased double minimizer with a layered question and a curiosity builder what were they going to say yes to So I'm okay with a no there right I'm okay with a no there But if they say no someone nailed it The first thing is like cuz remember they're saying no to you got a sec Oh my bad When would a better ch time be to talk Oh my bad We do a quick fold Quick fold right Oh my my bad When would a (33:35) better time be to talk You'll be shocked how many people to that go well I'm sorry What is this call about Oh I'm back in here Like we're we're we're gonna stay in the flow Versus if they say "No no no I'm busy Don't ever call me again I hate you." All right that's gonna happen right But they say "No I don't. (33:57) " Okay when's a better time to talk Either they're going to give you a time they're going to kick you off the phone forever or they're going to ask you "I'm sorry what is this call about?" And that's going to flow to the same question So the next question in this where they say yes or what is this about is the bucket question that I teach So the bucket question right is we got to lead with the pro So the bucket question actually I'm going to put y'all on the spot real quick if you're still with me in the chat Put in the chat the top two to three problems your product (34:26) solves Put in the chat for me real quick What are the top two to three problems your product solves Drop it in the chat for me Y'all didn't know y'all going to have to participate in this I don't do webinars I do workshops Let's go We're on the same page Saves time Customer onboarding time Help founders finding partners Measure impact Hi Track Hi Raja AMLS Coaching and training Recruiting time Labor cost Save money Security Predictable costs Team connections IT solutions Get out of the house Stop working from home Software development Morale (34:59) recognition We'll let this ride a little bit longer but 90% of you failed this Most of these aren't problems Most of these are not problems Most of these are benefits Save time make modernization increase conversions increase revenue save on overhead morale identificate All those are benefits Okay So when you are cold call it has to be 100% problem based And now y'all are starting to get it Failed payments Stop your team from tearing each other apart Let's not hate on Nickelback because Nickelback was a jam (35:40) I don't care what you say Okay Slow takeoffs Like you see the shift here Customer churn Stop over But now y'all are getting it So the next part that you come in from this is when someone says yes or what do you do It sounds like this Well I speak with blank all day So the first blank there is the persona I speak with CEOs I speak with CRO I speak with um D like I speak with persona all day They all seem to be struggling with blank blank blank And Jennifer I'm going to come back to that by the way on training the personality You'll be shocked We actually do this Not my personality but the tone Okay So hey (36:24) Adam I mean I speak with CEOs all day I mean they all seem to be struggling with high shipping costs overpaying for maintenance services high customer churn I mean does that sound like your world at all or do you got that all figured out right now Okay so let me break down the psychology behind this Okay so first I speak with blank all day Micro social proof Speak with blank all day Speak with people like you Second they all seem to be struggling with they all seem to be dealing with they all seem to be stuck with What this does here is it (37:04) makes it safe to admit you have a problem because no one wants to be If I called Pete out of the blue I say "So Pete what are the biggest challenges facing your business right now?" You're like "What?" Like I don't know you I'm not going to tell you that Versus I speak with CEOs all day long They all seem to be struggling with blank blank and blank So what we're doing here by throwing out the suggestions So I learned this from Sharon Pearson It's my favorite course of all time on influence Sharon Pearson ultimate influence She's out of Australia I mean just a monster (37:39) in terms of that psychology that she leverages But she calls it the illusion of choice where it's like I mean they all seem to strugg with this this this I mean and you're just throwing it out like I mean does that sound like your world at all or like y'all already got that totally buttoned up and that's where we have the alternative of choice with a blowup The blowup is like you know most people don't have the perfect version of this so they're doing this right So what this does on here and also shout out Sam McKenna if y'all don't follow Sam McKenna online Oh Sam McKenna She we've had her on a couple times Okay (38:15) it's real good because I I love Sam McKenna but I also forever will have a slight grudge against her because she just nailed the show me you know me and I wish I would have thought of it earlier right But the show me you know me concept is so genius because when I say to Adam they're dealing with churn rates man They're stuck The sales are only coming from them D right And it's like right there And funny enough y'all I just made that up What was Adam doing when I was saying those things I don't know if y'all caught it What was Adam (38:47) doing when I was saying those things It's the subliminal like like it's showing shaking my head Right Right So that that question what you're getting in one question is agreement to a problem right Agreement to a problem Like are you seeing those things too or you already got that tightened up Because also before anyone jumps in like well what if they do have it all tightened up then what do you have to sell them First of all if they don't have the problems you solve there is nothing to sell But then secondarily okay if they have solved it (39:24) you get to ask how did you solve it Right So that intro right You do the intro then you ask the bucket question The bucket question gets us into a problem Then from a problem we're going the enlightenment Oh tell me a little bit more about that What are you seeing And then most important what is that causing for you What is that causing Like is it causing long hours Is it causing slow Are you at a ceiling Like what's that causing for you right now So now in four questions on a cold call So back to the person that was like "Oh it's a bait and switch." No homie It's not a bait and switch Look at where (39:57) we're at now Okay I got permission to ask my questions What have I done I've asked some questions to see whether it's worth it And then we wrap it with what we call that might make sense It's like well Adam you know this might make sense You're dealing with blank is causing blank And wait y'all listen for my pitch Y'all ready You paying attention for my pitch for my product We solve that [Laughter] Whoa Whoa We We solved that I mean it's at least worth another conversation And then y'all listen this is one of the most important words on a cold call Let's let's get some time together next (40:46) week to dive in a little bit further How does Thursday or Friday look for you Killer this this I just poking those pain points till they admit and then literally your solution is nothing about even benefits even on your pitch It's just we solve all those things you just agreed that you have Oh right So Adam I don't I don't know It's because I love you I have a template for this I have a template for this I'll share it with you You can share it with the the the audience right We could drop in the chat (41:23) now for the people that made it live or Yeah Drop it in the chat now drop in the chat now One second Who want Who wants it See give us in the chat if you want that whole template The template We're getting we're getting a lot of yeses from a lot of people that are interested in it All right hold on We're doing this And Katie while you're doing that we do a section called Unfuck My Startup And what we've been doing is so in the beginning you came in for our pitch slap That's when someone pitches the audience (41:47) What we like to do during this next section is have somebody come up who is facing a problem in the sphere of sort of your expertise So if audience are there any of you out there who are trying to do phone outbound and we already have one person saying yes um who are trying to do outbound on the phone but you cannot make it work Again this is not the time to pitch your business this is the time to uh get advice because well for lack of a better term uh you want Katie and the panel to unfuck your sales So um let's um let's pull we got a few people Ben did you (42:28) want to pitch Because I think I know you do invalid phone numbers Maybe you want to come up next week to pitch Um okay cool Let's do that And then we're gonna have um let's grab Okay perfect Let's grab uh Michael over here Michael Liss is going to come up um who's having some some issues with his uh with his pitch Um but while we're pulling Michael up folks this segment now and for the foreseeable future is actually sponsored It's brought to you by our B2B insiders Okay that is our new community Um so if you're a B2B founder somewhere on your (43:03) journey from you know a few hundredk to 10 million ARR our B2B insiders is the community for you Uh we do a bunch of stuff in there We do a live event every Friday We got a bunch of courses Uh we actually have an Atom bot now that was trained on over a million words of Adam's learnings Uh and really most of all this is a community so you can interact with people just like you get feedback from founders who are doing the exact same thing So um we're not just going to straight up sell you We want to give you some stuff So um Katie is all about building great sales teams We have (43:36) a lesson in our one to 10 million secrets course It's all about how to build a great team So hop over to insiders.rbdb.com You've got free courses Uh and uh and check out that lesson four of the 1 to 10 million feed uh 1 to 10 million secrets course Also if you just want to drop insiders into the chat and have me reach out you can do that as well Uh and I believe at this point I'm gonna do this I'm gonna do this real quick though um peaches while we're on it I want to say you're welcome to Eric and um Peter and Tom and Jonathan because this is also one of the (44:10) things that I just want to call out of like the human side of selling We've lost a little bit right Like we've come here Adam asked to drop this I say you know what f it We'll drop it I put something in there for all of y'all to go and get There's 400 people on here and there's fouryear welcomes This is what's getting lost y'all I'm gonna call y'all on this This is what's getting lost in sales is like we we've lost that human side of things We've lost that element of like "Hey let me help you." And then when someone does (44:46) we're polite about it So I'm I will like those are things I pay attention to I pay attention to that Y'all are on a free webinar with Adam and Pete and myself and it's like oh we just took this thing like I'mma call it I'm gonna call it We appreciate that Now you're getting a bunch of thank yous after call This is also but we know this in relationships when you got to ask for it The king of influence over here getting steering the conversation out once Um and Katie I also want to say too when you are going through your pitch and I want people to know this especially if people haven't done a lot of phone sales (45:22) the I mean I'm sure you have countless examples of two people saying the exact same words and some person producing I don't know 4x what the other person is And it's that tone Even when you slip in and out of your pitch that tone is there And that So Jennifer asked this about like training the personality We practice the tone Everyone can read We practice the tone So when my reps are in a room doing hundreds of repetitions we're listening to the tone When we're using AI roleplay we're listening to the tone Did they nail Lost in the City Did they nail a down tone Did they nail the pizza dough (46:03) Did they nail the Scooby-Doo Like all these are named tones That's what we are practicing right Because everyone says scripts scripts you know make me sound robotic And it's like no a script doesn't sound anything Like everyone here has seen a movie watched a TV show listened to a song on the radio they were all scripted It's our job to make it come alive So this is what we we practice the tone No no no Pete that was that was too monotone Let's try it again No no no Okay I need an upton tone here No no no Like we practice this So it it it's a it (46:37) is something y'all where we take this [ __ ] seriously And and can I ask you something Do you think that an AI scorecard can evaluate a tone successfully Yeah that's cool Yeah that's cool Where are you doing it Where are Yeah Well I mean that and that to me is like one of the best things about this Like if I'm a seller I kind of want to know if I'm slipping but not when I'm practicing You know what I mean Like I want to know You know what I mean Like Yeah Uh and that that is like an incredible deal that you (47:11) can just like have that thing there you know kind of nudging you back on the rails or whatever right Someone asked it in the in the chat right Like the when we talk about the wiggle right The the wiggle wgll stands for what good looks like Like we've defined what a good tone is until you define it AI can't help you AI can't help you until you've defined the wiggle right Where whereas like I want the tonality It should sound calm but curious insightful almost unsure but not scared We call it the lost in the city because it's something if you were asking for help because by using an ask (47:50) for help tonality you're more likely to pull help in It should be a slow cadence that pulls people versus pushes people When I can describe that tonality it can listen and it can tell whether or not it's doing what it's supposed to do But you don't think the robot can actually do it yet Oh man it gets you in trouble again Oh man So actually so actually I'll be I'll I'll just say this I know Michael's sitting in the waiting room right now like "Yo like help me with my business." Okay here's the deal for outbound (48:29) No for two reasons One that's almost three One just first legality Legalitywise like you cannot just cold call with an AI but like legally you just can't like you will get into trouble Secondarily you have to identify if you were And so if you identify and it's like "Hey Adam this is KD I'm the AI co you know cold caller over at F. (48:55) " You're like "Duces." Boom Right Because as much as people are mean to sales people they are way worse to AI It's wild right Like that's this is why like bird scooters never took off because we can't be trusted with these things Once we know something's unsupervised we're throwing it into the lake So as soon as it's identified there it's it's a problem right And so those are there but in terms of tonality it is y'all it is it's almost there It's almost there I I listened to a tool last week that I think can do the entire inbound process today Today right Like today And it's (49:32) only going to get better So sorry Michael We have totally wasted your time I apologize Maybe this is why they didn't let me chat with the entire chat because like Katie you're not going to stay on topic here I'm sorry my dude It's all It's all good I appreciate uh you being here and all the tips In any case um so I the first thing to mention is I I don't really do much calling I haven't really had a lot of success with it but I'm also realizing from all of this that I don't think I was doing it right Um so you know would appreciate any advice and feedback that you can you can provide Yeah So I think the the (50:08) biggest advice I can provide on the phone is is one you do need to know your numbers right where it's like you have to do a certain amount of it for it to work You know like if you only make 40 calls and connect rates are 5% you're only going to talk to two people in the day And so a lot of times people actually just aren't doing enough of it So that's the first is like you know we got to make sure we put enough into it to to go there The second is what kind of what we covered is when cold calling it's all about the problems your prospects are facing and you need to be (50:46) able to suggest those problems Are you seeing blank Are you seeing like is that ring a bell at all The the best analogy I I can give Michael are you in a relationship at all No Okay So then you you know if you went to your partner tonight said "Hey what do you want to do for dinner?" and you just throw what What's going to happen if I say "Hey Michael what do you want to do for dinner tonight?" What are you gonna say Probably get a I don't know something non-specific bag I don't know What sounds good to you And then (51:15) it's a neverending back and forth until you go get leftovers out of the fridge Whereas when you suggest hey babe what do you want to do for dinner tonight We could go grab sushi There's that new Italian spot we haven't been to Um I mean we could always just you know order in something like what's what sounds good When you throw those out you're going to get an answer to it So that's why leading with the problems to your prospect of like so what do you sell Michael So yeah and that was that was uh something that I was going to ask because you know I was going to ask is it maybe is calling and the success of calling possibly dependent on the ICP (51:53) and their persona because I'm selling to a very senior ICP like in in very large top 100 retail companies who are like you know VPs They're making a lot of money They don't really have time to waste and they probably get cold calls a lot They don't they don't really bother with it the type of people who have like you know someone managing their calendar and whatnot and like and so it's a small pool of people to potentially sell to small pool of leads and so each one's quite valuable and so I don't want to also like piss people I've gotten a couple negative reactions and from that I got scared you know Yeah So that (52:25) that's like you know if you shot a a basketball and missed it saying I'm never going to shoot again because I missed Like part of cold calling is you're going to have rejections and we can't let the 80% take us away from the 20% But the more specialized you're going after the more specialized your outreach would be I'd be leaning in heavy on video for you Heavy on video Okay Interesting Video also like we could have gone this way today too Video allows you to control your tone Video allows you to be a person but also video (53:01) stands out So actually Adam Pete I'm curious from y'all real just off the cuff how many cold emails do y'all get per week Let's just throw this out How many cold emails do y'all get per week Pete Adam yeah 100 more 200 Like a crazy amount Yeah How many inmails do you get Uh a fair amount still I mean a lot I can't even count them at this point How many cold calls do you get per day Uh I try to block everybody So I mean a lot Yeah Right So now first I want you all to notice we went from hundreds to well may maybe five to 10 per right Like it drops How (53:41) many personalized videos do you get per month Adam some but very few Even if I don't watch them I'm like oh that's interesting Throw throw a number How many per month Yeah M May maybe maybe like three I don't know Are y'all y'all picking up what I'm putting down here Hundreds of cold emails per week Hundreds of inmails per month Three videos per month right So the more specialized the persona the more specialized your outreach should be So video the beauty of video is it also allow I'm sorry Aaron I'm I'm dude they they're never going to bring me back I'm (54:26) going to give all the sauce away Okay Like video is also multi- channelannel You can send video via email You can send video via email or sorry LinkedIn If it's an inbound lead you can send it via text Right now here I'm going to give you all the bonus tip on video that most people get wrong on this is most people send a video and expect a response wrong That is not the point of a video email The point of a video email is to get watched Video emails are not built for response They're built for watching And so people send a video and be like "Oh no one responded to me." (55:04) That's not the point of a video email right So this is one okay Send it and not expect a response Your job is to call them after they've watched it But second here's the here's the juicy tip I'll give y'all as we wrap You send it until it gets watched Most people send a video once and let it be I send it until you watch it Send it once you didn't watch it no response Guess what you're getting in a few days The same video with some different body copy Guess what you're getting four to five days later The same video with different body copy So if I (55:45) have a 20% click-through rate and then a 15% click-through rate and a 10% clickthrough rate and a 5% clickthrough rate I am now getting 50% of my videos being watched So then guess who I'm calling Michael Who's at the top of my list for my calls I'm gonna make you answer right Like yeah you're calling the the one who watched the video Yeah of course Yeah Yeah Then you're you're set up You're primed That's perfect That's awesome So there there you go y'all All right we are right at time there But I hope that helps If there's a tact if there is a (56:21) play to run right now if you're like I want to take a one play an actionable play away from this call that's the one Michael thank you for coming up my friend Uh that's the one Katie I have been I'm shocked that I'm not my inbox isn't flooded with videos yet I started sending videos years ago and um I'm stunned I've sent I haven't you know I've sent a few dozen out maybe more Uh I don't know I've gotten one in my life Yeah Yeah It's it's wild Like y'all like even for like my side stuff if I'm trying to generate business I take a (56:53) weekend videos Done Done That's it man Adam you're muted my man Adam you're muted It's his first one Yeah Yeah No I was gonna say Bethany from Senspark She can help with the video thing I know Bethany I know Bethany right We Beth is so good Um cool KD thank you so much Uh this was incredible The audience has been thanking you saying this is like the most valuable show that we've ever done It's crazy Maybe I made that up but me it was Dude I was ferociously writing notes the entire time I think it was (57:30) incredible That was great Um just all actionable You're a freaking just powerhouse Um sorry when you flew into Denver today It's so rainy out here But are you in Denver I'm I'm here in Denver I'm close to Golden I'm at Hotel Tatro right now All right Let me see what time I can finish it up today All right How' people How do people find you Right here on LinkedIn Is this the best place LinkedIn's my only social channel If it weren't for even be on social media So find me on LinkedIn y'all Give me a follow there If I can help anyone with this or sales leadership or anything (58:03) else just let me know But I appreciate y'all KD thank you so much man Thanks for taking the time and making it work Later take care